Professor of Designated Services, Elisabeth Haub School of Law at Pace University; Managing Attorney, Pace Environmental Litigation Clinic, Inc.; Executive Director, John Jay Legal Services, Inc.
Let’s jump right in, what drew you to the practice of law?
As cliché as this may be, from childhood I was always very interested in logic and debate. My parents encouraged that – often letting me debate all aspects of my life from a very young age. Perhaps for that reason, I became a philosophy major and ultimately ended up at law school. Litigation was a natural and perfect fit for my reasoning and advocacy skills developed in my youth.
You practiced law for nearly 17 years before switching gears to academia – what was practicing like and how did you transition to academia?
I started off in general commercial litigation at a big NYC firm. Although I was never quite the hours-grinder that other associates were, it was still a lot of dedication of my time. When my wife and I were expecting our first child (about 7 years after I started at the firm), I made a decision based on two things: 1) I wanted to have more time at home with my family and 2) I wanted a career in something I could explain to a 3-year old. That brought me to environmental law at the Attorney General’s office. My father was a college professor his whole life, so my drive to teach was always there, but became even stronger after hosting some town halls and really enjoying the instructional presentation format that provided. When an opportunity at Haub Law came up, it was an absolute perfect fit for me – litigate environmental cases on the “clean” side and also teach. I couldn’t say no.
Why environmental law in particular?
Very simply, it is one of the best ways to create a positive and lasting change in the world. I hope to always be working toward improving the human condition for the better.
You have been managing attorney of the Pace Environmental Litigation Clinic since 2016 – what has that experience been like?
The clinic represents not-for-profit environmental groups when they sue. Those suits can be against polluters (generally citizen suits under federal environmental statutes), state actors (generally municipalities for failure to conduct sufficient environmental review), or agencies (DEC or EPA when they fail to do something required by law). The students lead the cases, but I oversee, edit, and review everything that gets filed or sent to the clients or opposing counsel. We’ve done some very interesting and significant cases, and I’ve really enjoyed it.
More recently, you were appointed Executive Director of John Jay Legal Services (JJLS) – what vision do you have for JJLS?
In this administrative role, I oversee all the applications and placements in the clinic, along with deciding awards for clinical work and making decisions about how the office is run and structured. Our clinics do a great job at serving underserved communities, I would like to see this expanded even further. There is no shortage of a need for pro-bono representation in all areas of law, especially environmental, immigration and criminal work. Each clinic and externship director has been great about looking at ways to expand the reach and impact of our clinical offerings. I hope to help contribute to that.
What is the most rewarding part of your work at Haub Law?
When a former student reaches out to say, “I’m working now, and I put the skills you taught me to work every day.” The concept that all the work we are doing leads to better lawyers in practice is very rewarding.
What advice do you have for law students once they graduate?
Take the opportunities you are given. It’s hard to go to work directly in your dream job from law school. Learning to be a great lawyer can take several stages – just like my career did. From general litigation, to working for the state, to working for a plaintiff-side environmental firm, to this. I learned something at each step, so I would say open your eyes to all opportunities. If you wait long enough, everything always seems to work out for the best. At least it does if you are putting positive things out into the world. So, focus on that, and the rest will follow.
Are you working on any research projects or upcoming publications?
I have been toying with the idea of writing an Environmental Skills textbook. There isn’t much out there that is truly current. I plan to explore that.
Aside from law, how do you spend your spare time?
I enjoy hiking, snowboarding, chess, and (when I can) listening to live music. But the real answer is: driving my kids around to sports and other activities.
